Nice argument. Eve was a woman who had a choice. She made a bad choice. Therefore, whenever women choose, it is bad. Very convincing.

And by the way: saying the feminism predated abortion debates doesn’t make it so. Read some history. At the least, there were abortion debates in this country in the 19th century. The kind of feminism you attack did not come about until the latter part of the 20th century.

Eve made a choice.

Therefore what Eve did was good for mankind.

This is what Gnosticism says, too.

And that is precisely how Feminist Theology runs with it. In fact that is how feminism in general “validates” the humanity of women. She is fully human *because* she can make a choice. Eventually all sorts of mischief ensues. And, btw, it is feminism which predates abortion. The latter is a product of the former.

Elle, you are dead straight on. For a good read on how much so, try F. Carolyn Graglia, Domestic Tranquility: A Brief Against Feminism.

First, let’s separate out the abortion issue. I was not addressing that at all. Abortion debates predate feminism.

Second, you’re loading the issue by saying that women “abandon their children to strangers” and by saying that it is for “a lifestyle with more material goods.” My wife has worked while we had children and it was not for money or more material goods. I think you don’t see that many people — men and women — actually find meaning in their lives by engaging in professions through which they use their minds, creativity, etc. And, you’re also missing that not all parents are good parents. Perhaps that is why studies show that children in daycare are as healthy and doing as well in school as children raised by full-time moms. Now I am NOT advocating that moms should not stay home. I am saying that you are loading the dice by saying that women “abandon” their kids for the “sake of material goods

A woman needs a man like a fish needs a bicycle.

Social pressure for parents to sacrifice and actually spend time raising their children is a good thing, Simon. I don’t want to be free from that. I don’t have a problem with women in positions of influence. I happen to think that a woman’s influence is very important. However, it’s not worth it when it is at the expense of her family.

It seems to me like you’re missing the fact that the position of mother is the most influential position any woman will ever have.

So while you voice your objection to feminism, I suggest that we all — including you — are better off now that some of its ideas have been accepted.